The Ultimate Path to Forgiveness

Show Transcript

Hello, everyone. This is your host, Keri Logan at Master of the Upper Rooms. And I am really excited today because I have a special guest. My special guest today is Catherine Giovanni, and she is a three-time award-winning bestseller author. She's a dynamic speaker, an advisor, and a forgiveness coach. And she is recognized as one of the original founders of the independent concierge industry. So welcome, everyone. Catherine is here. How are you today, Catherine? Well, thanks so much for having me, Carrie. I appreciate it. So I read, well, I didn't read. I listened to two of your books that are on Audible, the one about forgiveness and the other one about the little bird on your shoulder. Fabulous, fabulous books. One of them that I just wanted to say that I thought was really interesting that lines up with what I teach, Mastering the Upper Rooms, 

is when you were coaching that one woman about how to increase her sales, concierge sales. Oh, yeah. Yes. And what you did was really cool because you guys got stuck down in frustration. And when you took that break and you went back to neutrality and you calmed down, that's where all the 4D tools are. And you thought of, oh, these are the options. These are the solutions. and you found them, which was really, really cool. And you share how you found those solutions. So why don't you share with everyone just kind of briefly so they understand what I'm talking about, that little scenario. I used to teach people, I've retired from the industry at this point, but I used to teach people how to start an independent concierge business. And it's just like a hotel concierge, except they're bringing it to mainstream America. 

So somebody hired me for a private session and we got to the fee setting part. And she said, well, this is the part I really need help with. And I said, OK, so what do you charge? She said five dollars. I said, for what? She said everything. And I said, let me get straight. You're running errands for people and you're doing weddings and all these things and you're just charging five dollars. She said, yeah. And I looked at her and I thought in my head, I said, this is easy because. we raise our prices. And I said, well, you just have to raise your prices. She said, I don't want to. And I said, excuse me? She said, I don't want to. And I said, okay, back up. She said, listen, I bought this business from my boss. She sold it to me for a really cheap price. And I said, was she making any money? She said, no, because that's why I got it so cheap. And I said, but you have to raise your prices. She said, nobody, everybody in the building where I'm a concierge in the lobby, 

is used to paying $5, they won't pay any additional money. And I said, okay, well then why don't we get you additional buildings where you can set up your shop? So instead of having one building, you can have more than one. She said, no, I don't have the time. I am banging my head against the wall at this point. So I gave her a break and we just had a break, but I needed the break because the way my gifts work is sometimes I have to let it sit in my head and I have to just walk away from the situation So I can get in tune with that still quiet voice inside my head, which I've been able to do since I was a child. And I kind of walked around the club that we were in. And when I came back, I had the answer. I said, why don't you charge $5 for every 15 minutes of service? And she loved it. Now, we all know she's still learning Birdseed, but at least it's more than $5 an hour. I mean... 

I mean, it was just the craziest situation ever. And she went off and I lost track of her, but she did very well for a few years. Yeah, and I mean, and that's the beautiful thing is thinking outside the box. Yeah. Yeah, I've really liked that story of how you calm down. So, and on the book about forgiveness, I really enjoyed the thoughts that people have of, Well, if I forgive them, I let them off the hook. Right. Well, if I forgive them, that means what they did is okay. All those excuses. I thought it was really important to hear because a lot of people can be stuck. And that's what keeps us stuck. I call them limiting beliefs. And so how do you tell everyone, how do you forgive the unforgivable? 

Well, first, everybody tells you that you have to forgive. Nobody teaches you how to forgive. Yeah. I teach the how. And also, what if you don't want to? Then what do you do? So on a scale of one to ten, with ten being unforgivable dumpster fire and one being the easiest person in the world to forgive, everybody listening and watching to this broadcast right now is thinking of their number ten, the person that hurt you the most. And that's completely fair. And you may or may not want to forgive this person because it's unforgivable. Also fair. So I'm the only one in the world that's going to tell you you don't have to forgive that person because there's a lot of people, places and things. And I did say places and things that you can forgive before you even get to that dumpster fire. Now, a few things. Just because I forgive you doesn't mean I want a relationship with you. Probably don't. Just because I forgive you doesn't mean I'm giving you a pass. And now all of a sudden you're correct. 

You're not. You're still wrong. You're still a dumpster fire. Forgiveness for me, and there's a reason why I call it a dumpster fire. The forgiveness for me simply means I want you out of my head. I want you out of my head. I want to stop thinking about you. I want to stop dreaming about you. When I think of a memory, I don't want to get mad anymore. That's what it means. And my system is designed to neutralize the memories. Because you've got these people in the planet who are saying, oh, forgiven, you'll forget. Right. No, there might be one unicorn happy person on the planet living bliss blissfully who can forgive and forget. I am not your girl. And I wrote the book on it. So what my what my system will do, it's going to neutralize the memory. So you can look at that person and look at that memory and there won't be any emotion there. That's what I'm looking for. 

So when you're dealing with the unforgivable, and remember, my system is I want you to start with the ones, the easy ones, and work your way up to the hard ones. But if you want the unforgivable, sometimes yourself is the unforgivable. So why do I have, why do I say a dumpster? Because you may or may not be able to forgive the person you're mad at, and it may not even be appropriate if it was something really horrific. So there's other things you can forgive. You can forgive yourself. You can forgive other things within that memory. So if you can't forgive your childhood bully from grammar school, Einstein did prove that energy is neither created nor destroyed. It just transforms from one thing into another. He also correctly said that everything on our planet, including this microphone that I'm using, has energy around it. And what nobody understands, the special sauce to the whole method, is nobody remembers 

Thinks to forgive the energy. So when I call it a dumpster fire, I want you to pull out other things in the memory. If you can't forgive the person, forgive the building, the energy around the building, forgive the table, the bed, the chair, forgive the day, forgive the playground, forgive the people who stood around and didn't help you and the energy around all these things. And that's going to be just enough to allow yourself to move forward. No, that was perfect because a lot of people don't forgive those things. They don't forgive the energy around it. And we are energetic beings. We are. And everything is energy and vibration. And I forget what book that I read, but it was really fascinating where when I get up and I leave this chair, my imprint of my energy is still going to be on it for 10 minutes. 

Sure. Well, yeah. And a lot of people don't know that. I mean, that's a scientific, I don't, I forget how they figure that out. Um, and a lot of people, even like with plants, plants are alive. Plants have energy. When you berate and yell at a plant, it literally feels it. It knows that and and And they did a whole scientific study about that. And when you send plants love, and that's why when you talk to plants, you send it nice energy. They thrive. They're happy. I have a plant downstairs we call Grandpa, and he's 30 years old. There was a study done in Japan. It's called the Japanese Water Study. And it's done by a guy named Masumoto something. I can't remember his exact name. And he took several containers of water. One container of water he spoke beautiful, loving words to. 

The other container of water, hate, negativity, horrible, horrible words. Then he froze the water and he put it under a microscope. So the water he spoke horrible things to had these black and brown formations, nasty looking. And the water he spoke love to, beautiful crystal kind of formations. So why am I saying this? Your body's almost 98% water. So when people say anger is toxic, this is the how. I like teaching the how. You are literally when your self-talk is negative and your anger and you're bitter and you're holding on to things, you're literally turning the cells in your body into sludge and it's going to make you sick. So when you forgive, even if you forgive the easy ones, it's going to actually start to change the cell, the water cells within your body and you're going to start to feel better. Yes. And they actually showed proof of that in what the belief do we know? 

Where Joe Dispenza was talking about the cells when you're, you know, thinking those angry, hateful thoughts. The clip was of a woman looking in the mirror and she saw her thighs explode and she started beating herself up, you know, for fat shaming herself. And when she realized what she was doing, she then, you know, stopped and took red lipstick and was drawing hearts all over herself and apologizing politely. Please forgive me for doing this. And I thought it was just a fabulous, fabulous movie or documentary that was created. Your body listens to everything you say. Yes. Yeah. Now, another thing I want people to get, and I know both of us know this, but do you have to forgive to a person face-to-face? And do you have to tell them? No. No. 

I've been sober for 34 years. I got sober. The flashpoint in my life was probably when my mother died. And I realized that after she died, if I didn't clean up my act, I was going to probably follow her. So I cleaned up my act. And when you go, when you quit drinking, you have to go, you go into AA and all these recovery programs and they tell you where you have to forgive and you have to make amends. And a lot of them want you to reach out to the people. Okay. I was born shy, like painfully shy. And I am an extroverted introvert now because I've taught myself over the years to overcome that. But back then, there was no reaching out to anybody. And if I knew they were mad at me, oh, no, no, that's not going to happen at all. So my system is forgiveness is selfish. It's the ultimate selfish act. It's personal. You don't have to reach out to anybody. You do it for you. You never do it for them. 

They're probably walking around on the planet and they're having dinner and they're going to work and they're all happy. And that kind of makes everybody mad because you want them to be as miserable as you are. But they're not. They don't care. They're not thinking about you. Ever. Ever. So you forgive. You forgive for you. You forgive because you want them out of your head. Now, let me be clear. You can forgive dead people. Yeah. Because it doesn't matter where they are or they're not. If they're living in your head, you can forgive it. And you can forgive the memories inside your head. I had a dysfunctional start to my life. My childhood is filled with alcoholism and I tried to commit suicide in the eighth grade and on and on and on it went. But I can look back now that I've forgiven my past. I can look back at my childhood and I can pick out the pockets of love that were there. Heck, I forgave 1974 the whole year. 

Why did I forgive 1974? Because it was a horrific year. My parents were both alcoholics. They were getting a horrible divorce with all those that that comes with. I was getting bullied in school and I tried to commit suicide. So I did pick out the memories because I do practice what I preach. I pick out the memories. I used to say I drink my own Kool-Aid, but I have to stop saying that because it's such a horrible reference. Please don't Google that. Now everybody's going to Google it. But I... Practice what I preach is a much nicer way to say that. Yeah. And I am able, I was able to pick out the memory and forgive all the pieces of the memory. And then I was finally able, I couldn't let it go. And I kept thinking about it. And I realized it's because I didn't forgive the time. I didn't forgive the date. So I forgave the energy around the entire thing. And then I was able to let the entire thing go. Forgiving the energy is the key to it all. Yes. 

It is. And it's, to me, it's just amazing, amazing work, what you're doing. Cause that is a 4d tool, you know, that all of us need to learn and all of us need to master. And, and that's why I say you need to go within because you can still stay stuck in blame. Well, it's his fault. It's her fault. It's that person's fault. But it's like the one that's suffering is Is you, that person's not having dinner and going, man, I really screwed Catherine over. That was a great time and night. And you know, whatever year that was, they're not thinking that stuff. No, they're not even on their radar. You're not even a blip, you know? And forgiveness energy is very powerful energy. It's like the, it's like the, it's like the law of gravity. It's going to work whether you think it's going to work or not. I can call the law of gravity, the law of keeping Carrie on the planet. It doesn't care. It's going to still work. Okay. I don't believe in the law of gravity. 

Still doesn't care. It's still going to work. Then the law of forgiveness energy is serious. Not only can it change your body molecules, but it's an actual energy that goes out. Here's a quick story. I forgave a level one friend of mine. Grew up with her. Don't even remember what we were mad at. And by one, I mean on my 10 scale from one to 10, she was a one. She was the easiest person I could think of to start the whole party with, right? So I sat in the middle of my bed and I remember... I kind of imagined her as she was when I was a kid, not the adult, the kid. And I said a few things because this is my party. And if I want to yell, I can. I was all alone in the room. So I kind of got it all out. And then my forgiveness mantra, you don't have to hold any crystals unless you want to. You don't have to dance around the room or stage it unless you want to, of course. Knock yourself out. It's a very simple poem because I'm a very simple soul. So I forgive the person, the energy around the person, forgive myself. 

the energy around myself, and then I forgive the energy around the whole thing. I hadn't spoken to this person in over 35, 40 years. That's how old I am. And two hours later, she calls me up on the phone. Almost fell out of my chair. But I'm a concierge by trade, so I pulled it together very fast. And so we said all the right noises and made all the right words, and we reminisced as people do. And we caught up and I'm a very curious little bear. And I said, after all these years, I have to know, why did you call me today? She said, you know, it was the damnedest thing. Two hours ago, which was exactly when I was saying my forgiveness mantra, a figurine you gave me in school flew off my shelf, landed in the middle of my floor. I saw it and thought I should give you a call. We were 700 miles apart. 

So if forgiveness energy can change the molecules in your body and move a figurine 700 miles away on a level one person, can you imagine what it's going to do for you as you move into the higher numbers? And there's worksheets and stuff in the book as well. This is a life changing thing. But remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint. When my friends and I first came up with this system, I went back, we all three of us, we wanted to do it. So I got my list together of like 50 people. And I said, this is going to be great. It'll be like a phoenix rising from the ashes. I'm going to be a butterfly. And tomorrow morning, I'm going to wake up and everything's going to be great. Susie, sunshine, here I come. Didn't work out the way I wanted to. And I did forgive 50 people. And I spent the next three days in bed with what everybody thought was a stomach flu. Wasn't the stomach flu. Remember the Japanese water problem? 

The cells I was changing have to go someplace. The reason I want you to do it before you go to bed is because your body heals itself when you're sleeping. And if you do 10 people at a time, your body will be able to toss that. But if you do more than 10, you might not want to leave the house for a while because you're probably going to be in the bathroom for a little bit. And that's completely normal. You didn't eat any bad fish. It's just your body clearing stuff out. Most people get really tired. Some people feel their shoulders get really lighter and they forgive somebody and they know they've forgiven them because their shoulders kind of feel magically lighter. It's a little weird, but it's true. A lot of us, including me, get a pressure in their solar plexus. And for those who don't know, it's above your belly button, kind of right in the middle there. And everybody's got a different thing, but you'll know you've forgiven. If you can go on Facebook and you can look at the person's name and you don't care, you're done. You've forgiven them. 

If you can go to Thanksgiving or Christmas and you see the person you're mad at and you literally just don't care, they can push your buttons and you're just kind of laughing about it, you've forgiven them. That's how you know. You don't care. It's neutral. And that's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking to erase the memory. I'm just looking to erase the emotions from it. That's all I'm trying to do. But you're not going to get a number 10 person down to a one overnight. It's going to take a minute. It's like an onion. I have so many people that call me up and email me and said it didn't work. I love it when they say that to me. Yeah, it did. You just forgave the first level. The brain is a stupendous, wonderful tool, and it protects you. So as these traumatic events happen to you, your brain will put it in the back of your brain in a closet someplace. And as you peel back the layers of that onion, the brain will open some of those closets and you will start to remember things. 

forgive them as they come out, forgive what you can and just keep going. Yeah, no, a hundred, a hundred percent. Cause I, I did have a life experience myself where I forgave a family member that was, some people would consider a monster and I had to interact with them when my older brother passed away. And when I saw that person, I was like, Hey, how you doing? And I was all happy and joyful. And the person went over to my younger brother and was like, what's wrong with her? Is she on drugs? Yes. But I was completely free. I was completely free and they couldn't trigger me and they, they couldn't get my behavior, you know, cause I was just like, let's do what we got to do here. And, but I was nice. And at the end of the visit, I actually gave the person a hug and it was like, 

I know. And it blew their mind. It really did. I bet it did. It was all gone. And it, but what was interesting was when I, you know, they said, I'd like to have a relationship. I said, sure, no problem. And then they got mad about, about started bringing up the past. And I said, well, I've handed you the olive branch already. You're the one that gets to choose because I, I'm totally fine. But if you want to stay stuck in anger and unforgiveness, that's your choice. Exactly. Yeah. And the person could not do the forgiveness was still stuck in anger. And I was like, well, I still love you. And but I understand why we can't have a relationship. And that's totally fine. They're going to be stuck in this lifetime. It's they won't move forward until not in this lifetime. 

Yeah, no. And I knew that. And that's where I could have compassion and mercy and still unconditional love for that person. Because I realized they're miserable inside and I'm no longer, I'm not anymore, but they are. And that's their choice. And I have a choice of how I want to feel, how I want to act, how I want to respond. And I, and a lot of people kind of get confused, especially around the area of how forgiveness is and how amazing you feel. when you totally get clear. Your story is a really amazing accounting of what's going to happen to many people listening and watching to this, because as you forgive, even with the ones, twos and threes, you're going to start to feel better. Your life is going to open up. You're going to start to pay attention. Why? For anybody who's listening to this, pop over to YouTube and watch the video, because I'm about to hold a coffee cup in front of my face. So when you first get angry, 

Cup represents anger and betrayal and resentment and grudges. But look at my body language. Really easy to keep it off to the side for the moment, right? But the longer I hold on to this glass, now I'm using two hands to hold the cup up because it's starting to invade my space. I'm starting to think about it. And if I still don't forgive, now the cup is right in front of my face. My life has stopped. I can't have a conversation with you without talking about the anger. It's all I can think of. It's consuming me. And I'm missing opportunities. So as you forgive, you're going to notice things. You might notice your dream significant other. You might notice a new job opportunity. Why didn't you notice it before? Because you were too focused on the anger. Now, conversely, the people you live with like you the way you are. And as you move into a new person who's more joyful and more happy, the person they knew is no longer. 

people will leave your life. And as Maya Angelou once said, when somebody shows you who they really are, believe them the first time. So as people walk away from you, please know that other people like energy attracts like energy. So you might be in the hallway between doors for a little bit, but not forever because pretty soon your people will find you. The people that match your vibrational energy will find you. Yeah, they will. So I want to switch gears really quick because I do want to talk about intuition because Master of the Upper Rooms is a spiritual podcast. So how do people unlock their intuition? Because a lot of people are like, well, I want to have more intuition or I want to be able to have, I hate the word psychic abilities. I never use it. You'll never hear me use the word psychic because when you think of psychic, you think of a grifter. 

Who's going to take your money. Yeah. And no disrespect to anybody who's using that particular terminology. It's just not for me. That's why you'll hear me say intuitive. I won't use the other word. Everybody on the planet is intuitive. We're born that way. Some of us were just born with the volume turned all the way up, but you know, everybody can do this. You either see it, feel it, know it, or you just sense it. And if you're just, if you feel it, you walk into a room and it just feels off. And you're not sure why it feels off. It just does. Or you'll shake somebody's hand and it's just like, there's something not right here. Yeah. you'll hear some advice. Sounds just like your own voice in your own mind. The little bird in my shoulder, I'm clairaudient, which means I hear things. I'm not schizophrenic. I don't need a straitjacket. I literally will hear the other side. And it said that little bird has saved my life four times and counting. Not that I'm paying attention to how many times it saved my life. 

But it's there to help you. Some people see the answer. If you can imagine your childhood bedroom in your minds right now, can you see the bed? Can you see the color of the walls? If you can, that's clairvoyance. Now, it doesn't mean it's a Stephen King thing and you're going to start to see ghosts. Probably not. What it means is you see the answer. You see it in movies. You see it in the written word. You see it around you. You pay attention. That's where you get your answers. Then there's the people who hear. I literally hear the answers. And then you get the people who just know it. One minute they don't know it, and the next minute they just do. And they usually get that mama voice. You know the mama voice. Everybody had mamas. When you got in trouble, she'd use that voice on you, and you knew you were in trouble. Everybody has that voice. And your middle name. 

Oh, you think your whole name came right out, didn't it? You knew you were in my world. You knew you were somebody was in trouble when you came home from school. My mother used to bake bread when she was mad because she could beat the dough. So you'd walk in the door, you'd smell this amazing bread and you think, God, I hope she's not mad at me. Because you didn't know who she was mad at until you rounded the corner and just kind of peeked in to see if it was you. Usually it was my father. But, you know, there was that moment there you kind of worried about it. The bread was phenomenal. But everybody's got this voice and everybody hears. Some of us have just been socialized since birth to not believe in it. You see your imaginary friends when you've been talked out of it. You probably did see an imaginary. You probably did see something. Everybody has it. I teach a lot of people to do guided writing to bring this out. So 

Very quickly, go get a pen and paper. Unless you're a Gen Z-er, you probably want your phone. That's fine. I don't really care what you use. I want you to be quiet. So I want you to turn off as much technology as you can. I want you to be left alone. No spouses, no dogs, no kids. Just be alone for a few minutes. Whatever words for ask a question. Why is the sky blue? Is this for real? I actually don't care what you ask. Whatever you ask. Did Moses part the water? Whatever, I don't care. Write a question. And then whatever words form in your mind, write them down blind. If you don't get words and you see something, like you're daydreaming, you kind of see something in your head, write down what you see. If you all of a sudden smell something, write down what you smell. If you're feeling something, all of a sudden you feel joy, you feel cold, you feel this, you feel that, write down what you feel. And before you know it, 

you're going to be having a conversation with the other side. You're a hundred percent. Cause when I sit down and I do my, my blog posts, I listen. Okay. What do you want me to talk about? It's all about what do you, and they're the ones that pick out the title. They, they, and sometimes I'm like going, where's this going? But then I get it. It's like, they're taking me down this, you know, rabbit hole. I've written 12 books and every book I've ever written has been probably channeled by me. I kind of get into a zone when I write and it just, I have been known to just go into a fog, a kind of a haze when I'm writing and then go back and reread what I've written. It's like, did I write that? That's pretty good. because I, and I often don't even remember it. Yeah. It's, I like to say it can be exhausting and exhilarating at the same time. because it's like so much wisdom. 

comes in, you're like, holy cow. Yes. Did this, did this come, come for me? Cause I channel book called affirming and focusing on living a better life. And that experience was so cool. Cause I woke up one morning and it was like, you're going to write a book, Carrie, and here's the table of contents, go to your computer and boom, put it all out. I was like, wow. And they're like, okay, now we're going to work on the first one. And there was times I remember, especially on the weekend, sometimes they'd wake me up early. They're like, okay, we want to talk about this. And I'd be like, I want to go back to sleep. No, I mean, I've had that same conversation. And I would negotiate. Okay. I will get up and I will write it, but you need to give me energy throughout the rest of the day. Or let me take a nap, support me in taking a nap. And it did. And what just came out was like, Holy cow. This is a amazing conversation. 

but they love to talk when I find for me when everything is quiet and it's that small, still voice. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm about to go to bed and, um, and, and sometimes even when I close my eyes, I will see this blue light and then I will see fractals. And then sometimes it's almost like a, um, wormhole that I can, um, it's, it's pretty amazing. I don't want to freak people out. Um, by sharing that, but oh no. And sometimes I even see faces and I'll just listen to what it is and I'll see lights. Sometimes I'll even see bright lights and it's like, they're all there and they're just like, okay, let's talk. And sometimes the stuff is so profound that I'll even say, I'm not gonna get up and write this down, but please help me remember this in the morning. I want to share this. 

Some people talk to the other side in dreams. I've run into at least a dozen, what I call dreamers and they have a dream and it comes true. Yeah. So if you, I really do advise you have pen and paper by your bed. So if you wake up at three in the morning with a, with a message, write it down. There's more to this world than what meets the eye. You know, it's like, um, it's like this woman, I had a, this was this now in my defense, um, this happened like 25 years ago cause I'm 63. So I've had a lot of stuff happened to me over the years. And I was teaching this kid. She was a kid. She might've been 21, 22 maybe. And she kept saying she went to this very prestigious business school. I'm not going to say which one it was. Just let's just assume it was a very prestigious one. She must've said it 30 times in the first two hours. And I'm, 

I listened to her and after the 30th time, I just looked at her and I said, my condolences, her jaw dropped all the way to the floor. And she said, what are you talking about? And I said, cause now I have to, you have to relearn everything that you were taught because the way I, you know, they're teaching this 1950s kind of way of business. And I'm teaching a fifth dimensional way of business and it's two different things. So that's, kind of what this is. What we're talking about is a brand new way of thinking, and it's a brand new way of doing business. Imagine if all the Fortune 500 companies allowed their employees to actually be intuitive, right? And everybody gets intuitive in a life-threatening moment, but you can do it when you're calm as well. I remember I am allergic to exercise. 

I have been most of my life. And all of a sudden I kept hearing, you need to jog. Very specific. You need to run. Okay. No. My angels and my spirit guides are very used to me arguing with them. No, I'm not going to do it. Well, I couldn't get out of my head. And the thing about this kind of stuff is if they really want you to do something, you're not going to be able to toss it out of your head until you do it. I often get messages for people and I have to call them because it's going to stay in my head until I deliver it. Exactly. This was the same kind of thing. So I found the Couch to 5K running program. Brilliant program. If you need to exercise and you want to learn to run, that'